For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . All Rights Reserved. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. All Rights Reserved. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. No. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Substantial in some circumstances. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. View Product. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. Let's pick up there. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Extraordinary accuracy. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. Actually, there is little here that would put off the sophisticated shooter as well. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Its truly impressive. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. So these two were on my list . The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. Thanks Bio. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Minuteman. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. Ah, the AR-pistol. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Apr 24, 2017 (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . *Bullet weight measured in grains, velocity in fps by chronograph and accuracy in inches for best 5-shot groups at 50 yards. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Why pay more? The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. So after that day it was on my dream list . As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. I mainly shoot at an indoor range. During our action test, we simply ignored the sights and read the dot. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. Just Got this in my e-mail . And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. Target right showed five A-zone shots. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. So was the grip and handguard. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber.